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SIGNIFICANT LIFE DEVELOPMENTS

Posted 07-18-2015 at 02:12 PM by MeechMunchie
Updated 07-18-2015 at 03:35 PM by MeechMunchie
1) I kissed a girl properly.
2) I got a girlfriend.
3) I love her.
4) She loves me.
5) I lost my virginity.
6) Turns out I'm actually pretty good in bed.

Yay, life goals of the last decade achieved. And I am very, very, happy.

___________

If reading that made you happy, just hold onto that for a second. It is a happy thing to read, and I want people to know that I'm still definitely on a net positive.

___________

Trigger Warning: Teen Drama

I intended to write that blog yesterday. At the time it was all true, and much of it still is. I kinda wanted to just write the first half and let people be all happy for me for a while before I admitted the rest. Sometimes it's easier to take reality in small doses. But y'know, safe spaces and all that.

Ginny was a survivor. She's been beaten and coerced and abused by men she trusted, but she's still beautiful and principled and talented. She also has PTSD, trust issues and, as far as I'm concerned, low self-esteem. I say she doesn't value herself enough. She says she's just not valuable. She has good friends, some awful exes, and had spent her youth playing music and cruising for dumb guys to fuck. The scummier the better, she'd said. It meant they were less likely to care when she snuck out at 4am, less likely to call her again, and she didn't have to feel any guilt if she hurt their feelings. She liked to market herself as a sultry succubus who didn't need anyone, but in private she told me how she went chasing "countless" men so that when they held her she could pretend they cared about her, but she could leave them before she got attached enough that she could get hurt again. No point in hiding it from you guys; I met her on Tinder (dating site/app thing) where (though I didn't know it), she was looking for suitable guys.

Instead she got me.

I was up all-nighting an essay, she was up because her PTSD had left her a little shaken that night. She tossed a flirt my way, I responded just to be friendly, laughed it off and tried to strike up a conversation. Over the next couple of hours she realised I Wasn't Like Other Guys, while I found her sweet and likable. We both liked dancing, classic horror, Absofacto, Harvey Danger, the arts, the grotesque and grim. I joked that we could be Gomez and Morticia. She said she'd had that same thought. We "clicked". She told me how cruel her past had been, I said how lonely mine had.

We did very little but talk to each other for the next week. Things got very intense, very fast. We did the one thing people say you should never do, and fell in love through writing before we'd even met in person. Can you blame us? A desperately lonely young man and a young woman who'd never known comfort? Ginny had all but detached herself from the world emotionally; for her own protection, she said. When I realised she was falling for me, I leapt at the chance to reassure her. I could never hurt her, I said. I could never begrudge her for not trusting me, given her history. I could wait. She could relax. She wasn't doing anything wrong, and I'd never judge her for being careful.

Slowly, as we grew closer, the carefully compartmentalised parts of her inner self began to come out - her capacity for love, trust, attachment; to feel safe with another person. I asked if she was prepared to let herself be vulnerable if it meant we could be closer. She said she was. I was happy. I was helping. I could be good for her. I could care for her. I could keep her safe and make her happy. I was Frank Sinatra singing "For Once In My Life". Make someone happy was all I ever wanted to do. To be the light of someone's life.

I offered her a stay at mine; three days and two nights, and she accepted. We knew we were being reckless. But we were sure things would work. How could they not?

Two days ago, we finally met. She was shorter than she'd looked on Facebook. I was taller, apparently. I told her I loved her, she told me she loved me, we kissed and we walked home together. It felt so certain. It felt so safe. We walked, we talked, we made out, we made love, and enjoyed every second. But I couldn't help but notice how much of our relationship seemed... recursive. Every conversation seemed to use "I love you" as punctuation. I wanted to say it, and I liked hearing her say it, but it made the bond between us seem fragile. I asked her if, minus the physical contact and constant affirmation of how much we cared about each other, we'd still have enough of a relationship to be happy together; hobbies, common interests, that kind of thing. We talked and agreed that we did, and indeed half the conversations we had from then on ended with a sideways look and "... Yeah, we're gonna do alright. This can last."

There were still niggles, though. The way that though she made me feel warm and comfortable, she didn't make me jitter or stutter the way I was used to feeling around girls I liked. The way that when she was upset I'd hold her and just kind of stare over her shoulder, not knowing quite how to feel. The way I loved to touch her and get her off, feel her writhing in my arms, and yet when she touched me it seemed so dull - not boring, dull like a blunt knife; to touch what "muffled" is to sound. I couldn't climax, even when I briefly tried on my own in another room. I enjoyed her touch, being held, and yet she couldn't make my heart pound the way I could hers. She was used to taking the lead, she said, but whenever she tried with me she'd just giggle and say I'd "got to her". She was used to me taking the lead now. She'd built herself up as a strong-willed dominatrix, but in a couple of days I reduced her to a giggling schoolgirl. I smirked all the time, knowing that she loved me that much, that I'd melted her iron-clad heart. It felt good to be around her. She was fun to talk to. Her smile made me feel like I was worth something. Her body was a joy to play with. I loved her, I was sure of it.

Very early, perhaps the night we met, we had agreed that promises should never be broken. If there was any doubt, you could vow or swear but never promise. Promise was Serious Word, that was never to be used lightly. Ginny said that I wasn't like the others. And I'm not - I could never beat her or rape her or keep her from what she really wanted.

But I then promised that I'd never hurt her.

I cared about her, unconditionally, the way that she'd been searching for. She was scared of men, scared of trusting them, scared of what they did, but I wore her down - not deliberately, I think, just by being myself and being what I wanted to be to her. I wanted her to trust me, I'd said, so that she could be safer, so that she could drop her defenses and stop trying to maintain her perfect composure all the time and just relax. So that she could be happier, because I was certain trusting, loving relationships was where happiness came from... but not until she was ready. But I did also want her to trust me because I wanted to feel worthy of that, and I think she desperately wanted to trust me even though she railed against it out of her conditioned fear of relationships.

So she did. The girl who'd been hurt so much, who'd rebuilt herself from scratch to keep herself safe, tore herself down again so that we could be together. She trusted me, felt safe with me, and loved me wholeheartedly.

Then I, the man who'd had her do that, turned around and told her that I didn't feel like I really loved her. I wasn't sure why, but I didn't.

I hurt her. I hurt her more deeply than she'd been hurt in years. I broke my promise. And I broke someone's heart.

___________

We were both very honest, thoughtful people; and we'd agreed that, for better or for worse, No Lies Ever. She never liked it when I sat brooding, so when I was staring out of the window last night, wondering why, when I cared for this girl so much, she didn't make my heart race the way love had when I was a teenager, I asked her what she thought. She crumpled a little. Then The Girl Who Never Cries started to cry. She said it meant I didn't love her. I said that couldn't be true, since I cared about her so much, thought about her so much, and enjoyed being with her so much.

We didn't argue. We discussed, like the pragmatists we were.

We covered a lot of possibilities. I was gay. I was stressed. I was tired. I was depressed and numb and just couldn't feel properly right now (I liked that one). I was more nervous about the relationship than I thought I was. I was uncomfortable with how much power I had over her. I was autistic (my sister's suggested this before). I'd just been interested in her sexually and got it all a bit mixed up (I hated that one). I'd got caught up in a certain kind of "rescuer" fantasy and the subsequent relationship wasn't as appealing as that fantasy had been. She didn't engage me enough intellectually. We just weren't right for each other. This was all new, and I just legitimately couldn't be expected to know how to feel about new things overnight. I was just overthinking it all, that kind of empty feeling hits everyone occasionally and it didn't really mean anything. We just hadn't known each other very long, all things considered, and there was some kind of delayed emotional response in the works. In my years of rejection and loneliness, I'd subconsciously set up blocks and barriers to stop myself from getting attached to people. I was a sociopath. I'd been more attached to the idea of being loved than I was to her as a person. I was a masochist who felt bad when they got what they wanted. I had a paradise complex and just felt empty and listless now that the one thing that I'd been constantly striving for had been achieved.

None of these things felt very satisfying. I said I should have just kept it to myself. She said it was good I'd brought it up early. I said this was all confusing and I didn't know what to do. She said that wasn't my fault. I said I still felt pretty awful about the situation.

So I just held her, and she cried for a long time. I cried too.

We just lay nose-to-nose and cried for a while, picking our words carefully and responding to each other after ten seconds or so. We kept a sense of humour, though. We just lay, spoke slowly and laughed and cried in the dark.

She said she wanted to cut off the tears like she'd learned to, I said I never wanted her to have to hide anything from me. She didn't trust me any more, but she still couldn't help feeling safe with me. She wanted to shut it down and try and be the succubus again but she couldn't. She said she wanted to break my heart and destroy me for breaking her open after she'd barred herself shut. I said I understood, and it wasn't unreasonable for her to feel like that. She said she knew what it felt like to be cared for, to love, to depend on someone, and she wasn't sure she could go back any more. I said I never wanted her to go back. I said I cared about her too much, that I never wanted her to throw herself at brutes just so she could pretend to be cherished, because I truly cherished her, I just wasn't sure in what way, and that she deserved a man like me, an honest, gentle man, but one less broken and awkward and brooding and confused by his own thoughts. She deserved better than me, and I never wanted her to have worse. If we couldn't work, she needed to hold onto the hope that it could with someone, the way I had when I was rejected over and over again. She said that she couldn't do that. She'd gambled enough, and kept losing. Love got her hurt, the way I was hurting her now, and she could never do it again. She had to give up, because it was the only way for her to be safe. She could never let anyone talk her out of her armour again. The best she could do was sex and make-believe. I said I wanted her to be happy, the way I'd made her happy back when I was so sure I loved her, and that another person could make her happy like that for the rest of her days, and all I wanted was for her to have that happiness because she deserved it so much after all she'd suffered. I wanted to love her so much, I said. I never wanted her to be in danger and it'd hurt every time I thought of her back in the loveless arms of a drunken stranger. I didn't want to let her go. I wanted to love her and be sure of it and for her to never have to live that cold and drifting life again. I said she was perfect for me and I didn't understand why things felt so hollow sometimes. She said that she was unlovable. I was driven by guilt, she said, constant guilt. I said I could love her, I just wanted to know how. She said that nothing can "make" you love someone. I said that I needed her to be loved and be happy. She said that she could never take these risks again. I said that, if nothing else, we needed to be sure, because she was too precious to lose over one stressful night that could turn out to be a brain tumour or a hormone imbalance or something that was nobody's fault. I wanted to try again, to get close slowly, naturally, know her properly and not push anything. She said if we did that she'd have to put the barriers up again - stop trusting me, feeling secure with me, and do her best to stop loving me. I said that was OK. I wanted what was best for her, I said. I knew she loved me and I didn't know how I felt and I didn't want to leave her, especially not on such a sour note, so we should just give it another shot, and try not to get so twisted up this time. She said we could do that, if I promised it would only be once. That I'd never get up her hopes and let her down again because she wasn't sure she could take it. I promised that it would be only once. It'd either work out or not, and when I made my choice, that was final. For now, we were just close friends, nothing more. She said OK.

We sat up and chatted like friends at a sleepover. It was nice. I was scared to say anything that sounded too affectionate because this girl I didn't love still meant so much to me and I was scared of pushing myself into strange territory where I didn't know how I felt again.

The night before, she'd slept in my arms and I'd felt loved and comfortable. This night, when our conversation ended, I asked her to promise that she wouldn't sneak out at 4am like she had with everyone else. She promised, turned over and slept at the other side of the bed with her back to me. I felt cold and alone and about as guilty as a person can feel.

This morning, we both woke up with our moods reset and were uncertain where we stood. We joked and laughed and teased each other, perhaps like old friends, or perhaps as a young couple should start. We talked about last night. I said I felt a lot more comfortable now that we were taking things more casually, but I still wasn't sure how I felt about her. We talked and, as I'd tried to avoid during the night before, something affectionate slipped out. Ginny felt the way it feels when someone that you love tweaks your heart, and started to cry. I said that turbulent relationships can still last, and that there was still so much value to me in us being together, we just had to try and relax because, truth be told, we'd only actually been together for a couple of days and there was still so, so much to understand about each other. I got closer, and One Thing Led To Another. We had sex, relaxed a bit, and agreed that just being friends wasn't an option right now. We were both strange, broken, anomalous people who'd got far too swept up in the dream that their troubles were at an end... but we were both still pretty rad people. We needed some Time Apart, then we'd try again. Sensibly. Safely.

We had lunch, teased and joked with each other as if nothing was wrong.

At 3pm I walked her to the station, still hand-in-hand, in limbo between being the boy who broke her heart, a trusted friend, a sweet and timid budding love interest, and just another "morning after" in the succubus's tragic career. We'd keep in touch, I said. She said I had to make those decisions now, now that she knew I could hurt her. She couldn't throw herself at me any more. She bought her ticket and I kissed her goodbye.

"I'll see you round," I said, "... And that's all I'll say".

She smiled, nodded, and went on her way. The "I love you, Ginny" in my throat sank back down. I'd wanted to say it, but I couldn't risk it unless I was sure. Because I didn't know if I had loved her, if I could love her, if I will love her - what was real and what was delusion, what sides of myself are madness and which are sincere. I still don't know. But I couldn't deny it was a relief to see her walk away.

Time apart.

I know I'll call her eventually. See how she's doing. I'll probably meet her somewhere. Have a day out. No nights. See how it feels to be around her. I still don't know what was wrong last time. I'd like to try again. She's a nice girl, and I know she'll love me if I'm willing to let her.

I just don't think it's something that I'm willing to do right now. I need to clear my head. Reflect at a natural pace. My "Life Goals" slate has suddenly been wiped clean, and I need to realign my sights and decide what I really want. I need time to pass. But I can't will that to happen. I need to move on, live out the days, the way the lonely always do.

Time apart.

Earlier, she'd asked me to promise that I wouldn't brood about the situation when she left. I promised. Yet I broke that promise as soon as she wasn't around to snap her fingers whenever I started to stare off into space. I'm breaking my promise now.

Some promises I'm just not ready to keep yet. But I know a way to help me stop thinking about something. Write until I can write no more. I've done my best, Ginny. I hope I can stop breaking this promise soon, just like my promise to not hurt you, whether that means being your friend or your lover or just letting you go back to the life you had before, even though that would hurt me so much.

Time apart.

When I got home, I saw her photo on my desk and quietly turned it over. I didn't want to see her face right then, for some reason. Sometimes you really do want to be alone.

___________

But sex(!), the act that I'd fretting over for years, went better than I could have dared to dream, under ideal circumstances. We loved each other. She gasped and giggled and praised my skillz while I did All The Right Things. Afterwards, she just lay on my chest and rested for a while. As a memory, a self-contained event, it was near-perfect. For two days, two beautiful days, I was beloved and sexy and fulfilled. It happened. It may have been a dream, but it was a tangible one. One I shared. It wasn't me getting my hopes up over nothing. It was Real. And nothing will ever change that.

It feels good, I think. It's only in the context of today that it seems bittersweet.

I always knew I'd make mistakes. I just thought I'd always be the one who got hurt when I made them. But hey, you have to allow an inexperienced youth a little naïveté.
Total Comments 25

Comments

Old
Varrok's Avatar
Weren't you gay?
Posted 07-18-2015 at 02:20 PM by Varrok Varrok is offline

Old
MeechMunchie's Avatar
Nah, I'm bi. I don't know where you're getting that from.

That said, being gay would certainly be inkeeping the stream of Youth Romance clichés I've been living recently. I know a guy who really likes me, and I know what straight sex is like now, so I'll, uh, look into it maybe.
Posted 07-18-2015 at 02:24 PM by MeechMunchie MeechMunchie is offline
Updated 07-18-2015 at 02:27 PM by MeechMunchie

Old
Varrok's Avatar
Quote:
Nah, I'm bi. I don't know where you're getting that from.
Two factors:
1)You're from OWF
2)You're not me.
Posted 07-18-2015 at 02:25 PM by Varrok Varrok is offline

Old
Nepsotic's Avatar
Hey Varrok, wanna hook up?
Posted 07-18-2015 at 04:51 PM by Nepsotic Nepsotic is offline

Old
Bullet Magnet's Avatar
Jesus Christ. I don't know how much I should really say, since I have nil personal experience of any aspect of this. Still.

You both started throwing around the L-word way too soon. Love takes a lot more time and work than this. There are a lot of things flying around at this stage of a relationship, but love is not one of them. Love can't happen until you are both perceiving one another in full, flaws and strengths at once. When infatuated we see only an ideal of the person of our own construction, and ideal which cannot and should not be met by reality. Neurologically it's very much like being high.

I also think you should not be comparing your emotions now to the ones you had as a teenager, when your brain worked differently.

Also, is she getting actual treatment for her problems? Because you can't help her just by being a good person, or else a lot of us wouldn't have the mental illnesses we have. And you don't want to inadvertently exploit any of those vulnerabilities. And vice versa. I know you have your own delightful menagerie of struggles, which I say with experiential empathy. Unless I done fucked up and confused you with one of the other messed up individuals on this forum, because we do seem to collect them.

Dammit, my thoughts are not nearly as organised as I thought they were. I don't want to be on your case or anything, it's just that you both made a number of mistakes that I've seen a lot, and did so under unusually difficult circumstances. You need to tread very carefully, for both your sakes.

Talking honestly about your feelings without so much of the haze of infatuation was a good move, unless it was replaced with the haze of doubt and self-loathing. The main problem in my experience is that I often don't know what my feelings actually are. You seemed to have that problem here too. Communication is really important, but problematic if you can't even fill in the blanks on your own side of the equation.

Do not think that you ought be be in love at this point. Investing so heavily in one another other so early was probably not brilliant, but that's life. Do not feel that you need to follow some script or pattern or meet some expectation that originations elsewhere. Whatever this is, it has to be its own thing.

Probably the most important thing is that Ginny does not need protection. She needs respect. And so do you.
Posted 07-18-2015 at 06:28 PM by Bullet Magnet Bullet Magnet is offline

Old
Nate's Avatar
I'm with BM on this one. If I read your post correctly, you spent two days with her. You felt the initial flurry of infatuation while chatting, then didn't get to the skyscraper of love. Give a relationship some time to build a foundation first!
Posted 07-19-2015 at 09:34 AM by Nate Nate is offline

Old
MeechMunchie's Avatar
Quote:
You both started throwing around the L-word way too soon. Love takes a lot more time and work than this. There are a lot of things flying around at this stage of a relationship, but love is not one of them. Love can't happen until you are both perceiving one another in full, flaws and strengths at once. When infatuated we see only an ideal of the person of our own construction, and ideal which cannot and should not be met by reality. Neurologically it's very much like being high.
We knew we rushed into the L-word, we knew it was reckless, and we agreed as such. We just didn't care. I literally said "We've got way too serious about this way too early and anyone seeing what we were doing would be horrified; Are you concerned about this?" and she replied with a cheerful "Nope!"

I think only negative repurcussions can make you really care about the mistakes you make, and I've certainly had some of those now.

Quote:
I also think you should not be comparing your emotions now to the ones you had as a teenager, when your brain worked differently.
True. The "nose-crying" wall of text is significantly abridged, and at one point Ginny pointed out "... Wait, did you just have horrific social anxiety and just tag the label "love" onto it? Because if you did, you're a fucking idiot."

Quote:
Also, is she getting actual treatment for her problems? Because you can't help her just by being a good person, or else a lot of us wouldn't have the mental illnesses we have. And you don't want to inadvertently exploit any of those vulnerabilities. And vice versa. I know you have your own delightful menagerie of struggles, which I say with experiential empathy. Unless I done fucked up and confused you with one of the other messed up individuals on this forum, because we do seem to collect them.
She takes medication and sees a therapist regularly. She also said that I was better than her therapist at helping her let go of her trauma (though I insisted that she should always listen to a professional over me), so I think I could be forgiven for staying invested in that side of her life.

As for mutual exploitation, I think it was really the name of the game. We both felt insecure, unappreciated and inadequate. I tried to make her feel secure, because she tried to make me feel attractive.

Quote:
Talking honestly about your feelings without so much of the haze of infatuation was a good move, unless it was replaced with the haze of doubt and self-loathing. The main problem in my experience is that I often don't know what my feelings actually are. You seemed to have that problem here too. Communication is really important, but problematic if you can't even fill in the blanks on your own side of the equation.
We agreed that I had self-hatred in spades, ironically because I thought I was a narcissist. Part of the reason I liked being loved so much was because it made me feel justified in liking myself. Which, to be fair, I actually do now. Ginny wouldn't have liked me so much for no reason.

But yeah, the #1 reason for us taking some time to ourselves was simply because the only thing that I knew made me feel legitimately secure in myself was time. I still don't know what my feelings actually are, but I couldn't find out just by brute-force brooding over them.

Quote:
Do not think that you ought be be in love at this point. Investing so heavily in one another other so early was probably not brilliant, but that's life. Do not feel that you need to follow some script or pattern or meet some expectation that originations elsewhere. Whatever this is, it has to be its own thing.
One of the highs of That Weird Night was Ginny suggesting that we just be like The Joker and Harley Quinn and be comfortably broken with each other, both incapable of love but enamoured with each others' insanity. I'd happily try again, and let our relationship be whatever it naturally became, but I need to all but forget how it felt to be infatuated with her first. The fantasy is still a tempting prospect, and it needs to be long dead before we can have the fresh start we both deserve.

Quote:
Probably the most important thing is that Ginny does not need protection. She needs respect. And so do you.
Bingo (though to be honest I think she needs both. She has friends for that, though - very good friends. She went straight to one of them when we started hitting snags, and I said I was glad she had someone like that).

I got a liiittle bit desperate when I was first suggesting our Fresh Start, still convinced we just needed to plug a couple of leaks to make our relationship bouyant. I enjoyed the way she made me feel about myself, but I wasn't sure I enjoyed her company for its own sake. I said something along the lines of "wanting to see her at her best" - she's a musician, I wanted to watch one of her gigs, something like that. I was convinced I had too much power over her, and that I needed to feel awestruck by her to balance that out. In other words, I didn't respect her, and I was clutching at straws to try and make myself do that.

As for me, I... I don't know how to tell whether I'm respected or not. Sorry. But I think I respect myself a little more, now. I deserve more than just any girl, which to be honest was pretty much my standards when I went into this. I just don't really know what I'm looking for yet. In my defense, though, this is the first time I've felt like I'm in a position to actually choose whether or not someone is worth pursuing.

Quote:
I'm with BM on this one. If I read your post correctly, you spent two days with her. You felt the initial flurry of infatuation while chatting, then didn't get to the skyscraper of love. Give a relationship some time to build a foundation first!
The thing is, this is all very good advice... if taken before you fuck things up. We can't take the time to build a foundation because the building already collapsed. We need to wait until all the rubble has eroded away before we can start building again. So yeah, we'll do that... we just can't do it yet.

_________


Ginny and I won't be seeing each other again any time soon. We did a kind of dramatic goodbye this morning, which, as I am coming to realise happens when you try and be a romantic hero in an imperfect world, rapidly trailed off into a more mundane but more meaningful conversation. I told her that no, I did not love her, but I still cared deeply about her wellbeing. I accepted that I can't change the way she feels about relationships on my own, and that ultimately only she can choose to stop whoring herself out, so if she wants to do that I won't try and stop her any more. She told me that she was still definitely down to try again, and she still felt that I was an exception to her blanket "no attachments" policy, but not while I was still motivated by guilt over letting her get hurt. I agreed that guilt was a terrible reason to spend time with someone, that she was worth more than that, and so I wouldn't see her as more than a friend again until I was certain that guilt wasn't a factor. This, I said, would probably take a very long time, because I feel guilt for a very long time.

I said that I appreciated what we had together, that I'd always treasure the good sides of the experience, and that I felt like a bigger, fuller, better person for all of it. I knew she didn't want to risk looking for happiness yet, so I just asked her to stay safe. I didn't want to make too many mistakes if we tried again, so I said that I needed to see other people, find out what a healthy relationship feels like, so that if, a few months or years down the line, I picked up the phone and we tried again, I'd actually have half a clue what I was doing. She said that was OK.

Oh, and my dick works again now, so there was definitely Something Up With That.
Posted 07-19-2015 at 09:35 AM by MeechMunchie MeechMunchie is offline
Updated 07-19-2015 at 12:03 PM by MeechMunchie

Old
Holy Sock's Avatar
This is a very dramatic and intense few days. Very strange to read since I've never experienced anything similar in such a short time span. It's good that it changed you for the better, though
Posted 07-19-2015 at 10:52 AM by Holy Sock Holy Sock is offline

Old
MeechMunchie's Avatar
I forgot something fairly significant; after popping upstairs for a few minutes during the "happy" half of Ginny's stay, I came back down to find her crying into her hands. I asked her what was wrong, and she said that "this won't work because I'm a terrible person".

What I said was that she was certainly not a terrible person, and was in fact quite a wonderful person whom I cared about very much, so of course things would work out.

She did feel better, but in retrospect, I should have asked what "this" was, and why she felt it was so inappropriate for her. She probably would have told me that "this" was a deep and loving relationship, and she was scared of being hurt. Then I might have had the incentive to take my foot off the gas before driving headfirst into unknown territory.

Quote:
The main problem in my experience is that I often don't know what my feelings actually are. You seemed to have that problem here too.
Oh, and if you have any tips with this, please share. I'd really like to resolve this if I can.
Posted 07-19-2015 at 11:49 AM by MeechMunchie MeechMunchie is offline
Updated 07-19-2015 at 12:01 PM by MeechMunchie

Old
Bullet Magnet's Avatar
I'll let you know. I'm lucky my therapist is patient.
Posted 07-19-2015 at 01:06 PM by Bullet Magnet Bullet Magnet is offline

Old
Crashpunk's Avatar
That's the craziest few days I've ever heard of. You could probably turn that into a successful romance novel.

You achieved what I've been trying to do for years in only a couple of days. I can only be impressed honestly. So props to you I guess
Posted 07-20-2015 at 02:51 AM by Crashpunk Crashpunk is offline

Old
OANST's Avatar
There's not much I can add to this. I guess the only thing I can say is that you should tone down the honesty the next time you enter a relationship. Relationships aren't built on brutal honesty. They're built on trust. Be truthful, but not at the expense of their feelings. Especially if you don't understand what's happening inside of you yourself. I know that sounds like bad advice, but just don't hurt people that you care about unnecessarily. If you like a person, date them. Of course, you don't love her. You barely know her.
Posted 07-20-2015 at 08:55 AM by OANST OANST is offline

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MA's Avatar
mate, you live and learn. everything you experience makes you stronger. i wish you the best of luck, my friend. i'm sorry i can't offer more in the way of advice but my own personal experiences have all been trainwrecks.
Posted 07-20-2015 at 09:00 AM by MA MA is offline

Old
MeechMunchie's Avatar
Quote:
Be truthful, but not at the expense of their feelings. Especially if you don't understand what's happening inside of you yourself. I know that sounds like bad advice, but just don't hurt people that you care about unnecessarily.
I'll be honest (lol), that does sound like bad advice. She agrees with me that just being straight with her was the best thing to do, and that if I'd kept my trap shut we'd probably be worse off than we are.

Sorry. The issue wasn't that I was open about the mistakes we made, the issue was making those mistakes in the first place. Of course I want to spare people's feelings, but I know very well how much letting insecurities fester can hurt people. I'd rather hurt someone, and myself, a bit in the short term than risk hurting us a lot in the long term. Not every single negative thought I have is worth sharing, obviously. But when something sticks out as significant, or potentially problematic, I think it's worth taking a punt and finding out whether it actually is an issue or not, there and then.

I am a very insecure, brooding sort of person, and the one thing I need to keep out of my life is lies. Shit's confusing enough when the truth is on the table, I don't want to start hiding things away.
Posted 07-20-2015 at 02:52 PM by MeechMunchie MeechMunchie is offline
Updated 07-20-2015 at 04:04 PM by MeechMunchie

Old
OANST's Avatar
Well, that advice is definitely predicated on not blurting out I love you as soon as you meet the person. But no relationship survives brutal honesty. Part of caring about someone is having them irritate the fuck out of you from time to time, but not shoving it down their throat. What matters is if you like being with them. If you do, see where it goes. If you don't then definitely cut it short.
Posted 07-21-2015 at 05:52 AM by OANST OANST is offline

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OANST's Avatar
I feel like my advice sounds like an attack. I don't mean it that way. You're not the first person to make this mistake. I've made this mistake myself. You're not a bad person, or stupid. You're just getting used to dealing with other people in meaningful ways. And man, that shit is hard.
Posted 07-21-2015 at 07:50 AM by OANST OANST is offline

Old
MeechMunchie's Avatar
It's OK, I know you want what's best.

Like I said, I always knew I'd make mistakes, and me and Ginny are still friends, and still think we'll try again some day (with a deliberate lack of specificity on when that could be). I have the relationship experience of a 15-year-old with 5 years of bitterness and anxiety thrown on top of that. All things considered, I got off pretty lightly relative to the severity of the mistakes I made.

And I've said it before, I'll say it again: We KNEW investing in each other early with big ambitious romantic sentiments was a mistake, we just didn't CARE. Because the only people who CARE are the people who have ALREADY made that mistake. We were planning out our next three years together before I'd even shaken her hand. Feel free to facepalm, I know I earned it.

My analogy of choice right now is that skipping to the close, trusting parts of a relationship is like skipping to the most exciting parts of a book. Yeah, they're the best parts, and it's OK to want to get there - you just need to accept that the only meaningful way to get there is by going through the early stages first. Otherwise, you'll end up really excited but with no idea how you actually got here, what's going on, and what's OK and what isn't.

As for honesty, I really think it depends on the people involved. If someone thinks I'm a cunt, I want them to call me a cunt. That's an extreme example, of course you don't have to be rude to be honest (usually), but honesty is just my #1 priority in people - friends, family, whatever. You can think that's weird. I am weird. And I don't doubt that there are other people who are weird in the same way. You don't trust people because they lie to you.
Posted 07-21-2015 at 01:11 PM by MeechMunchie MeechMunchie is offline
Updated 07-21-2015 at 01:23 PM by MeechMunchie

Old
STM's Avatar
(´・ω・`)
Posted 07-22-2015 at 12:22 PM by STM STM is offline

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Vyrien's Avatar
(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´ ・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω ・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・`)(´・ω・` )(´・ω・`)
Posted 07-22-2015 at 12:22 PM by Vyrien Vyrien is offline

Old
OANST's Avatar
I'm not recommending lying, by the way. I just recommend not over saturating a person with every single truth. Me not telling Steph that I would prefer she not leave the tv on for the dog all weekend when we go away, because I really don't want to pay for a dog to watch tv, is not lying. It's self preservation.
Posted 07-23-2015 at 06:18 AM by OANST OANST is offline

Old
MeechMunchie's Avatar
In the spirit of your advice, I'm not going to respond to that.
Posted 07-23-2015 at 02:42 PM by MeechMunchie MeechMunchie is offline

Old
Bullet Magnet's Avatar
Is dog a bad dog? Is that why dog doesn't deserve TV?
Posted 07-24-2015 at 12:49 PM by Bullet Magnet Bullet Magnet is offline

Old
RoryF's Avatar
No, it's because the dog can't count to TV.
Posted 07-24-2015 at 03:59 PM by RoryF RoryF is offline

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Paul's Avatar
Needs more dogs watching more tvs
Posted 07-28-2015 at 09:13 AM by Paul Paul is offline

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MeechMunchie's Avatar
Posted 07-29-2015 at 03:58 AM by MeechMunchie MeechMunchie is offline

 




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